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Living My Truth: Elle De Vaughn's Inspiring Journey

Jun 21, 2024

Trigger Warning: Please listen with your best interest in mind

In this special Pride Month episode of Different Perspectivez, host Jennifer Wiley welcomes Elle De Vaughn, an inspiring individual who transitioned from Joshua Guillory to live her authentic life. Elle shares her remarkable journey, discussing her transition, overcoming severe depression, and embracing her true self. This heartfelt conversation is a testament to resilience, self-discovery, and the importance of living one's truth.

You can listen to the full episode via Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube.

Key Highlights:

  • Reconnecting and Pride Month:

    • Jennifer and Elle reminisce about their long-standing friendship.

    • The significance of having friends and loved ones support your journey.

  • Elle’s Transition Journey:

    • Elle shares when she first realized she was transgender.

    • The impact of severe depression and how seeking therapy helped her uncover her true identity.

  • The Importance of Authenticity:

    • Elle discusses the moment she accepted herself as transgender and the positive changes that followed.

    • Overcoming internal and external challenges to live authentically.

  • Spirituality and Faith:

    • Elle’s relationship with God and how it strengthened through her transition.

    • A personal anecdote about finding her car in a busy airport parking garage as a sign of God's presence in her life.

  • Physical Transformation and Fitness:

    • Elle's journey to fitness, losing weight, and maintaining a healthy lifestyle.

    • Her philosophy on fitness, moderation, and self-acceptance.

  • Femininity and Self-Love:

    • Elle’s experience with body dysmorphia and how transitioning has helped her embrace her femininity.

    • The importance of self-love and accepting compliments from others.

  • Navigating Relationships:

    • The complexities of dating as a transgender woman.

    • Elle’s thoughts on finding love and what she looks for in a partner.

  • Public Perception and Education:

    • The need for education and respectful conversations about transgender experiences.

    • Clarifying misconceptions about gender reassignment surgery and the diverse journeys of trans individuals.

Elle De Vaughn

Instagram - @ElleDeVaughn

Jennifer Wiley

Facebook -

Instagram -

TikTok - @thejenniferexp

LinkedIn -

Until we meet again, we wish all our listeners well and peace. Thank you for tuning in to this important conversation.


Full episode transcript:

The Jennifer Experience: My guest today is Miss Elle De Vaughn, formerly known as Joshua Guillory, born in Houston, Texas, residing in Atlanta, Georgia. She received a bachelor's degree from Dillard University in New Orleans, Louisiana, and later obtained a Master's Degree in Human Resource Management with Concentration in Organizational Development. Elle is a certified life coach and fitness enthusiast. Elle was very active in the local church and participated in several aspects of ministry, ranging from music ministry to preaching and teaching. And currently Elle is living her truth in hopes to encourage others to do the same, no matter what. Elle continues to inspire others with their fitness goals and life coaching. Elle is a dog mom to Murphy, a mini golden doodle. Elle enjoys working out, entertaining friends and family, and currently works as a training manager for a major healthcare company. Elle lives by the mantra, live each day with gratitude and love. The rest will fall as God intended it for my good. Ladies and gentlemen, Elle De Vaughn. 

All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of Different Perspectivez. Today I'm doing a little something different because you all are able to see me and my guest. You're actually able to see me and my guests. Yes, yes, yes. I've been doing specials all this month for Pride, and so this month, I've had a bunch of my friends on, I'm not doing anything different right now with that part. I still have another friend on. I want to reintroduce this friend because some of my old friends know this friend because this used to be our friend too, but he is now she, and so I want to introduce to some and present to others. Miss Elle De Vaughn, round of applause for Miss Elle De Vaughn. Miss Elle De Vaughn, and I, we were just joking, we were just saying how we go back like babes in past times. We, we've known each other quite a long time. And so, yes, yes, yes. And so we're going to get into this, this conversation of her journey, of going through the transgender journey and what she's going through. And I just wanted her to share her story with all of you. I've been watching from afar for a while, and, I'm so proud of her in where she is now. And I think it's important that again, you know, we're able to hear real time stories of how people do things and what they experienced and all that kind of stuff. So, Elle

Elle De Vaughn: Hello.

The Jennifer Experience: How are you feeling today? Because I mean, you look fabulous. How are you feeling?

Elle De Vaughn: Gosh, I had to get juiced up for you, girl. I

The Jennifer Experience: You did, baby, you did. 

Elle De Vaughn: to get juiced up. 

The Jennifer Experience: I mean, you look fabulous. I'm so honored. I'm so honored.

Elle De Vaughn: I feel, I feel wonderful. I'm excited about this opportunity. I appreciate you. Thank God for you. So, hey, let's do this. Let's get into the good stuff. 

The Jennifer Experience: Okay, Let's get into it. So, tell me when you knew that you were not supposed to be Josh, let's start there. 

Elle De Vaughn: Let's start there. Interesting enough, you know, what I've learned in this journey so far that everybody's story as far as transitioning is different. Everybody has a different journey. My journey is different. And so for me, it wasn't so much of I hated living life as a male. I hated living life as Joshua. That wasn't the case at all. I just got to the point where, I realized that Joshua had brought me on this journey as far as he needed to. So when I got to that point, I didn't have an idea of what was next in the back of my head. It was always, you're trans. You don't want to admit it. You can go ahead and be gay and use it as an avenue, but you, you're trans. And I feared that. That actual terminology. I feel the whole trans experience, I was always intrigued in some kind of way, got connected to something with the whole trans life. But I always like, no, I'm gay. Appreciate you guys, what y'all do, but I'm just gay, but always in the back of my head, I was fulfilled because I wasn't really living my authentic self and my authentic truth. So two years ago, I went through severe depression where, to the point where I didn't want to live anymore. And this is my first time publicly saying this, as far as, you know, that moment, I had a lot of times, um, okay, 

The Jennifer Experience: Take your time. Take your time. 

Elle De Vaughn: We just started, girl, I'm not crying, I promise you, I'm not, we're not doing this!

The Jennifer Experience: It's okay. It's all right. Take your time. 

Elle De Vaughn: I just had a lot of moments where I didn't want to, I didn't want to live. I didn't want to live and not so much where I wanted to like, I wanted to take my own life. I just didn't care if it was gone, if that makes sense. So if somebody did something to me or if I got into a car accident or whatever, I didn't care anymore because I felt like I just did not want to live. I didn't want to live. And so, I started really praying and like, and God just opened the doors for me to seek counseling and therapy and see what was really going on with me and see what, see what was, what was the issue? So as I started going to therapy, going to counseling and really talking to my therapist about what was going on, start unpacking and uncovering things, this is when the whole transgender conversation came into play. So when we started talking about that, I really shunned it because again, it was always in the back of my head, but I didn't want to bring it to the forefront. But until she was able to make me talk about it and bring it to the forefront, that's when the light came on for me. And I was like, Oh my God, that's what it is. This is what it is. And so when it came out my mouth that I accepted the fact that I was transgender, life has just been the best part of everything. I have a reason to live now and God has given me an opportunity to live. I had a lot of shit that has happened to me in my life in my 44 years of living.And God has just carried me through all of that stuff. And even through this, but, He allowed me to go through that severe depression and go through all of those, all the stuff I went through to get where I am today, and to accept me be accept who I am except being transgender, accept living life as a woman and I'm only at the beginning stages of I just started this journey in about a little less than a year actually, but, Just come out and saying that this is what it is. This is what the thing is. The depression was gone. The willingness to live was here again, my willingness to thrive, me having hope, me loving myself as Elle, being able to compliment myself and see the beauty within and on the outside as well. And it was just a whole new insight for me. And so I'm just so grateful for where I am today, where I am right now, where I'm going with this. It's bigger than just becoming a woman, living life as a woman. It's a lot going in on this transitional process on the inside. And,that's what I'm realizing. And it's just been the best part. And I just thank God every day that he allowed me to see this opportunity because the enemy tried to do is have me take myself out as Joshua and Elle would've never came forward.

The Jennifer Experience: Mm. 

Elle De Vaughn: I know everybody's not going to get that. And it's not for everybody to get. People who are going to support me and love me are going to support me and love me. But I hope somebody hears this podcast or somebody, even a kid or whatever, hears this and be like, man, I want to live. I want to be my authentic self. You know, I'm not trying to promote the gay agenda or the LGBT agenda or even trans agenda or not. I'm promoting the living. I'm promoting living your authentic truth and your authentic self. And I think, when you can get to that point, I'm so glad. Sometimes, you know, when I first started, I kept telling my therapist, why I wait so long? Why I wait so long? She was like, this is the time that you're supposed to do this.

The Jennifer Experience: Right. Right. Right. 

Elle De Vaughn: And I see that now because everything's just been so aligned. When you're on the right path of what God wants you to be on, and I'm not trying to make this a spiritual thing because I'm not necessarily a religious person like I used to be, but I definitely have a relationship and I definitely understand God. But, everything's just aligned when you're on the right path that God has intended for you to have and be open to that, you know? So, it's just been a blessing. I'm telling you, it's just been a blessing. And so when I opened my mouth and decided to accept who I was, the ball started rolling. Things started happening for me that was much easier for me now. 10, 15 years ago, wouldn't have been as easy as it is now.

The Jennifer Experience: Right, right, right. 

Elle De Vaughn: My job and insurance and things that I need to, I don't want to get done. Everything's just aligned so perfectly. So I know the time is now and I'm in a good place. I'm just so happy when I tell people my story, I tell people about me being trans. The first few words is that I'm happy. I don't know what else to tell you. I'm just so happy and I have a reason to live.

The Jennifer Experience: Hey, listen, the fact that you're happy, that's huge right there, that that's huge right there. Now I'm gonna pull up. Yes, sip your tea because I'm gonna pull one out on you now. I told you, because see, like I said, we go back a long time. 

Elle De Vaughn: long time.

The Jennifer Experience: Ladies and gentlemen,

Elle De Vaughn: Why this picture? I said you should have used a different picture. I said that picture is horrible.

The Jennifer Experience: Listen, listen, you all. This is the picture that Josh gave to me.

Elle De Vaughn: I don't even remember giving anything, that is crazy. 

The Jennifer Experience: It's is got my name on the back of it. Joshua Guillory gave this to me in 19 something something.

Elle De Vaughn: Ooh, 

The Jennifer Experience: This is the picture, and I want to make sure y'all see this, this is, this is, 

Elle De Vaughn: Look at them glasses. And that rayon, that flower shirt. Oh my God. 

The Jennifer Experience: Signature, this is him 

Elle De Vaughn: And my little, my little, uh, haircut. That is wild. 

The Jennifer Experience: Had a little part part in the middle.

Elle De Vaughn: So that part, my hair was grows like that. And so what they tried to do, I don't know if my, I don't know who to cut my hair, but they tried to make it a little

The Jennifer Experience: Okay, I thought you was being cool, but this is what I want to know. When you see this picture, what do you think? What was this young man thinking? Was Elle anywhere in sight in his mind? Was he conflicted in any way? Was he struggling with anything or was he just happy as he could be?

Elle De Vaughn: It's a little combination of all of that. Honestly, at that point in my life, I was very involved in the church. And so, I live life based on how other people wanted me to be and live.

The Jennifer Experience: Ah.

Elle De Vaughn: I was, I always felt like I was on a platform or a stage. So that I had to present a certain way and do certain things. At that age, I did not know, I didn't know I was gay. I was very feminine then. I can acknowledge that now, but I couldn't acknowledge it then.But I didn't know what it was, you know what I'm saying? I didn't know exactly what, what was going on. and so that was just a time in my life where all I knew was church. I was going to church like, three, four times a week and, you know, carrying a big briefcase to church and doing everything I could remember when I started going to the church that we all grew up in, they would send a church band out there and it was a whole bunch of us little kids, teenagers going to church and church band to finally got down to just me that was continuing to go for so many years after the fact. All I knew was church. I didn't have no life outside and I wasn't really big on video games and having friends and playing outside, nothing like that. When I did play, I would play with Barbie dolls. I played with my cousin's dolls and stuff. Trying to hide and do that. I did that all the time. I enjoyed doing that, trying to do their hair and stuff like that. But that little boy was just trying to live life for other people, didn't know how to live life for myself. And I can honestly say, I did not necessarily, I didn't hate myself, but I didn't know how to love myself.

The Jennifer Experience: Mm. 

Elle De Vaughn: I didn't know how to love myself. And I didn't know I deserved to be loved.

The Jennifer Experience: Wow. I think that's a story of a lot of, people part of the alphabet soup, as I like to call it, the LGBTQ community. I think a lot of us, have that feeling, especially when it comes from church. So speaking of church,you know, I know how I feel about my spirituality, but I'm, I'm curious, where are you with yours?

Elle De Vaughn: Girl, let me tell you, I don't want to get emotional again, but I will when it comes down to God and my relationship with Him. Because I feel like, I feel like it's just me and God. Everybody else, I don't know what's going on, but it's just me and God. That's what I feel like. And it's interesting, I know we had pre chatted before this. I feel closer to Him now than I did when I was so heavily involved in the church. I feel closer to Him now than I did when I was so heavily involved in the church.

The Jennifer Experience: Me too. 

Elle De Vaughn: Yesterday, I came back from Los Angeles. I went to Los Angeles, and I parked in the parking garage in Atlanta at the airport. And if you're familiar with Atlanta Airport, it's one of the busiest airports in the world. That means that the parking deck is off the chain. I've always had a fear of parking dicks because I tend to forget where I park. So this time, this happened again, in L. A., on my way back, I was like, Oh Lord, here we go. I know I parked in the parking garage. I cannot remember where I parked. And I'm having to start through my head on the way to, back to Atlanta. So I get, everything goes as planned. I get to the park, get to Atlanta, get to the parking garage. And I have no earthly idea where my car is.

The Jennifer Experience: You didn't take a picture? 

Elle De Vaughn: I didn't take a picture. Usually I do, but this time I didn't. Cause when I got, when I pulled in, it was like, wee hours of the night I was on an edible. So no, I didn't remember why I parked it. 

The Jennifer Experience: Lord have mercy, y'all. 

Elle De Vaughn: But anyway, so I got back, so I was walking up and down the stairs looking for my car and I didn't even know what to do. I didn't even know who to call to ask for help. I didn't know. I was just really dumbfounded and, and, and my spirit just kept saying, God got you, God got this. And so I verbally said out loud, I was like, God, at this point, I've been walking for hours looking for my car. Okay. Hitting the button. It wasn't nobody, but everybody button beat everybody caught me, and it's a white car. So it's thousands of white cars, Nissan's that's out there. Right. So when I said out my mouth, Because my spirit already said, God got you, man. God got you. This is simple. God got you. My spirit already tried to convince my mind what was going on. So once I had an alignment with that and said out loud, God, show me where my car at. You got this. I hit that button when I said that, and that car was not even two feet from me. I don't remember parking where my car was at all.

The Jennifer Experience: Mm-Hmm.

Elle De Vaughn: And I just started boohoo crying right there in the parking day. It was just that some people say, okay, just you missed it. You don't know where your car parked. It was bigger than that. It's the fact that God, and then you talk about my relationship and spiritual answer and all that. God loves me so much that He would just, He performed miracles for me 

The Jennifer Experience: up for you. 

Elle De Vaughn: and he shows up for me. And I was boohoo crying for so long in the parking lot. People thought I was crazy. Cause I was like, God, you just love me so much. And I, and I'd be like, God don't play about me. And I mean that. And I'd be like, now, how can people say God is not real? How can people say that are trans or gay people or LGBT people don't have relationship with God god loves me. How can they say that? 

The Jennifer Experience: How dare they?

Elle De Vaughn: I was just so I'm like, man, God just loves me. He got my back and He said, just trust me. I got you. And so I've gotten closer and closer to Him just on. And that's just something that's just happened recently. I can go down along the line of all the miracles God has done and showed up for me. But, that's just one thing that comes to mind immediately because it just happened yesterday, but it was just amazing to me how God just showed up for me in that moment. 

The Jennifer Experience: Yeah. Yeah. 

Elle De Vaughn: And it's just because I trusted him. 

The Jennifer Experience: Yeah. And, I mean, hey, that's all it requires is trust.

Elle De Vaughn: You understand? I had walked up and down

The Jennifer Experience: I do. I heard you say you had been two hours.

Elle De Vaughn: Oh my God. With my luggage, no security, people are trying to help, nothing. And the final, I just said, Lord, show me where my car at. I hit that button that time. And that last time that cost it right there in my face. I couldn't believe it. I could not believe it. I just started crying. It was amazing to know that guy. You so awesome. You love me so much. And, I can't help but serve Him and tell people. About Him. It's not always about the church and getting involved and all that. That's a whole nother conversation. But God wants you to have a relationship with him.

The Jennifer Experience: Yeah, that's what's most important. That's what's most important. I want you to tell me, what the transition for you has entailed because you've gone through a physical transformation, you know, obviously. 

Elle De Vaughn: Right. 

The Jennifer Experience: And we look at you today. I mean, you're gorgeous. Well, you're just just gorgeous. So I mean, tell the people how you've done such. So, I mean, because some of us look at your Instagrams and we are in awe. We are just in awe. You know what, some of some of us can us can never aspire to such things. If y'all want to know what I'm talking about, go to his Instagram. I cannot say what I'm speaking of, but if you want to know what I'm talking about, go to his Instagram. you know, so tell us how you're able to get certain things in. Certain places to do certain, you know, share the secrets.

Elle De Vaughn: Well, or, you know, I've always struggled even as a kid, even in that picture that I struggled with my weight. So I've always been a heavy guy. I've always been with my grandmother called Husky. I've always had to go shop at the, in the Husky section. I couldn't stand it as a kid, get ready for school. My grandmother was going to the Husky

The Jennifer Experience: It's nothing wrong with Husky though. Don't don't.

Elle De Vaughn: As a kid. It was nothing wrong with it. It's just that it, no, no, no, not, no. Oh, I wouldn't dare do that. it's just that, for me, it just wasn't for me. It wasn't for me. And I was, rewarded a lot with food as a kid. So that was planted in me. It was planted in me the wrong way where food became rewarding to me versus eating it just because it's because I'm supposed to be eating it for nutritional reasons. It was. you know, a reward to be able to eat certain things. And so I found comfort in that. So I ballooned up as I got older to, my heaviest is right at 305, right at 300 pounds. 305 I think was that height was the heaviest. And, as an adult, I got that big, but as a kid, I was, I was like a little chubby, a little husky little guy. But as an adult, I got a ballooned up in 2000, maybe six or seven, maybe or eight, I think running around 300 pounds. I lost a lot of weight. The first time and just exercising and running and stuff like that. And then people magazine contacted me about doing my story about weight loss. They do an article every year about people half my size and I was featured in the Atlanta Journal Constitution prior to that about my weight loss success story. Yeah, it was inspiring to so many people, of course. I got excited about that opportunity and gained all the weight back within months. I just wasn't going to do everything. Right. You know,

The Jennifer Experience: Really? I didn't know that.

Elle De Vaughn: Yeah, I gained all the weight back and some, and then in 2014, I started that journey over and I've been on the right path since then, as far as just exercising and trying to trim down and lose weight and all that kind of stuff. And, it's been a journey. It's been rewarding. It's been the best thing I could have ever done for my life. I feel like, now that I'm 44, when I was 24, I was much more, heavier and, I wasn't as fit and healthy as I am now. And I feel so much better. Yeah. You know, I feel so much better. Right before I started losing weight, I was pre diabetic. So I didn't have to worry about that issue. And hypertension and all that stuff runs in most black families. Anyway, it was definitely running in my family and I was trying to run from it. So, once I started making those changes, things just started happening for me, you know, as far as going and working out and I started running a lot and just challenging myself and pushing myself and I was taking baby steps. And I would, I think I've been successful now over the last 10 years because, I don't beat myself up if I want a piece of chocolate cake, if I want some fried chicken or whatever, I'm going to eat it, but I do everything in moderation and in balance, you know, I'm not one of these cold turkey, kind of people, even when I help people out with their fitness goals and talk to them through their fitness journey, I let them know, hey, don't beat yourself up, give yourself goals. And when you get, when you accomplish that goal, set the next one and keep going and keep rewarding yourself, but don't beat yourself up when you fall. You know, and don't go cold turkey on something. Give yourself, you know, instead of eating three pieces of candy, maybe get down to two and then get down to one until you get down to where you don't want to have it anymore. And that's what I did. That's what worked for me. But I do also know that everybody's journey, when it comes down to fitness and nutrition, everybody's fitness and nutrition journey is different as well, but you got to find out what works for you. Take that and run with it. And that's what I did. So to this day, I work out like crazy. It's therapeutic for me now. I'm just trying to do a lot of maintenance and, you know, and try to, you know, challenge myself and growing in that manner. So it's been well worth, well, well worth the journey. And I know, even though I got a lot of followers on social media, I know there are people who are following me who may not ever tell me how much I've inspired them, but I constantly get people in my DMs telling me about how me posting a fitness picture of me doing some exercises or some, some glute exercises or whatever has inspired them to get up and conscious, started doing something. So that's what's doing it for the people then. So be it. 

The Jennifer Experience: She has a perfect behind.

Elle De Vaughn: I wouldn't say perfect. I'm working on 

The Jennifer Experience: Oh, I would, I would, I've said it to people. Yeah. And y'all know, you can call me after the show and tell y'all know, I told y'all know, I told you, I said, go to his page. Cause I don't know how, how she got this perfect.

Elle De Vaughn: I'm working on it. I'm working on it. I've just been trying to focus. 

The Jennifer Experience: Tell us about your femininity journey, because your skin is glowing. I mean, all jokes aside, your skin is glowing. Your face is beat. Your hair is laid. Now, now, now, now, wait a minute, Elle told me before she came on y'all that she had a team. So, before y'all be talking about me, she had, I didn't have a team of people today to make me, to make me up.

Elle De Vaughn: I had a team of people just for today. I don't have a team all the time. 

The Jennifer Experience: I didn't have a team of people, so don't be talking about me after the podcast. Like, Jennifer came on there looking like that. I, this, this was not my day to shine. Okay. Okay. I just came on regular. This was Elle's days to shine. And as you can see, she is shining bright like a diamond, 

Elle De Vaughn: I ain't like a diamond, no. But, um, 

The Jennifer Experience: Tell us your femininity journey, because I mean, you cute girl. 

Elle De Vaughn: What's interesting is that I do suffer from body dysmorphia on top of the fact that I'm transitioning. Yeah, so,but as, as I've been transitioning, that's getting better. But, and I said to say, like, even when I was living my life as a male, as Joshua, and people would make comments, About me and saying, oh, you so handsome. You look so good. You got a nice body. I can never see that or, or, or, agree with that. I can never see or agree with it as a guy, but on this side of the thing of the spectrum of this side of life, I see it. I receive it and I embrace it. You know what I'm saying?

The Jennifer Experience: I do. Okay. 

Elle De Vaughn: So that's what you see when you say I'm glowing. That's what you see because what you're saying, I feel that on the inside. I've never felt that before in my life. I've always felt the opposite. When somebody say, you so fine, you so handsome, you this, that and the third. I could never really accept it or receive it. And so, being able to understand and give myself, I'll be, sometimes I'll be doing my makeup, I'll do them and maybe could do it in my hair or throwing on a wig, you know, and I look in the mirror, I'm like, Oh, you're a bad bitch, you know what I'm saying? And you know, it may sound crazy, but I've never done that before you cause you, and it just, and what it is in a nutshell, it's about loving yourself.

The Jennifer Experience: Yeah. That's what it's about.

Elle De Vaughn: And so now I got to go back. I circle back to God, God allowed me to love on me, love myself. So when I meet people, friends, or even people, if I get in a relationship with somebody, they got to. Come a hundred percent because I love me. You know what I'm saying? And so that's what, that's what this process has been going. So what you see as far as the radiance or any glow or whatnot, that's because it's on the inside, I'm feeling a different way than I did as Joshua for so many years. And so, I think I've always been feminine. I just never really accepted it because again, I've always tried to shun myself away from the transgender conversation, to the fact that even some of my close friends was like, we had no idea. You're not supposed to, you know, then I had some people who were like, oh, you know, that's not surprising, you know, that kind of thing, which is great too. And so, you know, I've just been taking steps and learning. Cause I never was a person that was a makeup girl or, you know, do makeup or somebody who did hair and all that stuff I'm learning now. You know, for myself, you know what I'm saying? And, never been like this big fashionista kind of person or whatnot. I'm learning kind of all that stuff now. I'm learning what works for me, what I like, what I don't like and all that kind of stuff. So it's been, it's been a quite, quite an experience. 

The Jennifer Experience: Yeah. And I think that's important. I did an interview with, Lisa Watson Wajed and I don't know if you're familiar with Julie J from New York. 

Elle De Vaughn: I've heard of the name before. 

The Jennifer Experience: So that's her mother. Mm hmm. I interviewed her mother and her mother is the sweetest thing and she, she loves, loves Julie J. And so we were talking about how everyone's journey of coming out is very different. And when you're coming out. And when you're transitioning, whether you're coming out as gay, lesbian, bi, transgender, whatever, there's a process that we go through because she was saying how as the mother, she's one of those mothers who wants to know every term, every definition, she's googling everything. And I said on the podcast to her, to think that you're going to know everything is an unrealistic expectation to put on yourself because even us in this moment, and I talked about how, you know, when I first got into the life and when I first came out, the first woman that I fell in love with was a minister in the pulpit with me I had no idea what I was doing, when I first got into the gay world, and even though I came out to my quote unquote few people that I did come out to, it wasn't like I could go to them and ask them, how do you date a woman? How do, how do, how do I navigate through this world? So I had to figure out a lot of stuff within myself. I had to figure out my own spirituality. I had to figure out how does Jennifer now want to navigate and move and present herself. And what am I okay with? You know, in terms of how am I going to walk in my truth?and so, you know, in saying that I'm saying all that to say this, it is totally understandable that you're still navigating through that process and people have to give you grace if you don't know everything right now, you know, because as you as you go on, it's something as simple as even I had, it took me a while to learn my type. And it's funny, but it, but it's true. I had, I literally had to learn my type. I had to figure out now that I know a woman is who is who I, who I'm going to be with. I needed to figure out which type of woman I want.

Elle De Vaughn: Yeah.

The Jennifer Experience: Guess what? There's, there's all kinds of colors and types and rainbows. I mean, I was like a kid in a candy store.

Elle De Vaughn: Oh yeah, I'm sure. Exactly. I know. I know exactly what you're saying. Yeah. 

The Jennifer Experience: And, just like in the heterosexual world, every dating experience is not a good one.

Elle De Vaughn: Yeah.

The Jennifer Experience: If every relationship experience is not a good one. And so, you know, you have to navigate through that you have to navigate through the church aspect of it, you have to navigate through the professional aspect of it, especially if you have any type of real job. I wasn't an entrepreneur then I worked at someone's company.You know, so, I, I, I totally get that you, you know, you're still navigating through it. Now, of course, the people want to know, are you single?

Elle De Vaughn: Oh, yes, I am single, ready to mingle. No, but you know, uh, if it, yeah, 

The Jennifer Experience: You single, ready to mingle? 

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The Jennifer Experience: You single, ready to mingle? 

Elle De Vaughn: I'm always open to mingle. Absolutely right with the right one. But what's interesting is that I'm open to the fact that if it happens, it happens. I'm not rushing anything. I would love, love. I got out of my relationship, about four years ago. and that was really my longest relationship or real relationship. We live together and we basically played house together and play a relationship. But, it was interesting because, in that, that just taught me so much about myself, what I don't like, what I tolerate, what I don't tolerate, how people should treat me, you know, how to have those easy conversations that are super, super sweet and stuff under the rug. Because I feel like my relationship, even though it lasted, like, maybe two and a half years, it probably was over six months in, but because both of us kept trying to make it work and just try and knowing that the romantic side of things was over, we kept just trying to make it work. So, when you're trying to make it work, but at the same time, the romantic part of it is gone. We kind of just played house for the latter part of the relationship and so things got started getting a little ugly and, we had to go our separate ways, but, I'm open to it. I love love. I feel like I would treat my partner exceptionally well,

The Jennifer Experience: Now, Elle you need to put some stipulations on what you're open.

Elle De Vaughn: That's exactly where I was going. 

The Jennifer Experience: We don't want your inbox full of, of, of suitors who you don't. And then I want you I want you inboxing me to my Jennifer, you got people in my box. So y'all listen very carefully. 

Elle De Vaughn: Right. Sexuality is different from gender identity. Okay. So, but for me, even as a gay guy, I've always been attracted to men. I never was attracted to women and any, any aspect of that. But, and now, you know, now that I'm transgender. I'm still attracted to men. 

The Jennifer Experience: So sorry, ladies. Sorry, ladies. Do not, do not go in Elle's box. 

Elle De Vaughn: Yeah. I appreciate you, ladies. 

The Jennifer Experience: Ladies of all types, whether you are gay or straight, please, please do not, she is not interested in dating you. 

 I just want to make it clear, ladies, ladies, this is not your call. Okay, now continue. Here we go, gentlemen. Here we go. Gentlemen, sirs. sirs. Lean in, sirs. Here we go. 

Elle De Vaughn: Let's really narrow it down. Grown sirs. Grown men. Grown men. I don't do, I don't, I can't, 

The Jennifer Experience: How old is grown?

Elle De Vaughn: Oh gosh. Okay. So I would do like 10 years, my junior at the youngest.

The Jennifer Experience: Okay, because you know, grown some there might be a 21 year old say he grown.

Elle De Vaughn: Yeah, I get, you know, I get a lot of 21, 22 year olds in my inbox all the time and I let them know how old I am. 

The Jennifer Experience: We're saying 34. Or higher. 

Elle De Vaughn: Or higher. Right now, I don't want to miss out my blessings because there may be a 30 year old out there that may be the man of my dreams or maybe my soulmate. I'm open to that if that's the way it goes. They mature and we can really benefit each other and vibe. Hey, you never know. I'm not going to shut down everything. That's old fashioned. I don't know why I'm doing that. I don't want no 21 year old, let me be clear on that. But, uh, at this point in my life, I do want to get with somebody who I can call my life partner, and really settle down and make things work. And that's where I am. So if I can get that person that's on that same page with me and that same vibe. What I want, Jennifer, more than anything, I want to be able to experience somebody who is crazy about me as I am about them. I feel like all the dates I've had in my life, I've always been more crazy about them. And I was into them and wasn't really concerned about the fact, well, how they feel about me? Do they really, really like me? Do they really, really love me? And so that's the way I'm looking at it now. I want you to be just as infatuated and obsessed with me as I am with you. Because I feel like, you can, yeah, I feel like you can get, sometimes you can get set yourself up for failure if you keep pouring too much into somebody and they don't pour it back into you. Then when it's over, you left empty.

The Jennifer Experience: Yes. Look at my old branding manager. He used to say, go where the love is. You need to go where that love is. Well, so that's interesting. So do you, do you want children?

Elle De Vaughn: I'm open to it, but you also have to understand, absolutely. I'm definitely open to it, but you also have to understand I'm a little older. So if I meet somebody who has kids already, I'm going to be step mama, step big mama, whatever you want to call it. You know, not use big mama. I don't like, 

The Jennifer Experience: Did you say big mama? See, this what y'all do not know. Elle is really an undercover comedian. And she's really, she is holding it in.

Elle De Vaughn: Oh, no, no, no. I like to have fun. I can be a fool.

The Jennifer Experience: When we were kids. She had us rolling doing, we couldn't pay attention during church because we was laughing and then we would all get in trouble. and then it would be,

Elle De Vaughn: Yeah, girl, we had a time. God was so good to allow us to it. That's another conversation, but it was just we had a good time. We had a good time. We learned a lot. There were some things that could have been done differently, but that's in any situation, but I'm glad I'm so glad 

The Jennifer Experience: Don't get, don't go there. That's a whole nother show. We don't go there. Bye 

Elle De Vaughn: You're going to dive in deep. So let's come back. Let's come back. 

The Jennifer Experience: Bye. My church trauma series will be starting in July for all of those that are waiting. Okay, so yes. Listen, listen, listen, but I, I, I want to say to you, I want to be the first to say on air and in front of America, I am proud of you. Listen, I'm proud of you. I love you for who you are, how you are, where you are. And, I think that I'm glad that you realize that God loves you more than I love you, more than anybody else could ever love and I'm glad that you don't give a shit what these people think. I'm glad that you live in your truth. I'm glad that you walking in your truth. And I'm so glad that you did not choose to take your life and leave this earth. I hear stories all the time and see this is what I need y'all to get in the church and everywhere else. I hear stories all the time of people who are part of the alphabet suit, the LGBTQ community, and because of things that are said and done, they feel that their life is not worth living. So what I want to remind y'all all in the great, in the great words of my friend, Reverend Dominique Robinson, the blood is for everyone. It's for everyone. It's for everyone. And so, listen, it's just for everyone. It's for everyone. And so I need y'all to stop, stop, you know, kicking people out, stop, stop, unincluding people because y'all do it, but y'all getting y'all starting to do it in a more slick way. Thank you cause you do it more silently and you do it behind closed doors and you have people scared to be themselves. And at the end of the day, it's killing people silently.

Elle De Vaughn: Yep.

The Jennifer Experience: So I'm, I'm so happy that before you left this earth, you were able to be who you are.

Elle De Vaughn: Yeah. And I'm so, I'm So grateful. 

The Jennifer Experience: Yeah, So I, I stand with you and listen, I'm glad you chose Different Perspectivez to come on here and debut to the world cause hon, cause honey, you you pretty. You are pretty 

Elle De Vaughn: This is definitely the debut. This is the coming out video right here, basically. 

The Jennifer Experience:  I'm coming. I want the world to know. 

Elle De Vaughn: Just think I have so many friends who didn't make their 30th birthday and, you know, and so I just, I'm just grateful that God blessed me to, open up my eyes to, to who I am and who he intended me to be, you know, and that's okay if people don't get that, that's between them and themselves. I ain't got nothing to do with me, but I'm just glad that God gave me the grace and mercy to be able to live my authentic self, my authentic truth. I know that's what ties me closer to him because I'm living in my truth and we serve a God who is about truth. You know, who is, who is real. And so, because I'm living in my authentic self, it's the best thing in the world. And sometimes I ask God, I'd be like, God, just before I come out as this, as Elle and I'm trying to come out as trans, give me some signs, give me something that say I'm on the right path. And every time I say that He does. Something to come off, come across the screens about Elle magazine. All of a sudden, all that song may come on the usher has, you know, bad girl. He mentioned Elle magazine. It's just always something simple. Like, like God, just God confirming that I'm on the right path. So I'm just excited. I'm just excited about it. You know, I'm not telling you that it's easy. Like it do it sitting here in front of you right now, this video, I have a lot of anxiety. But you made it comfortable for me. Because you first of all your family. So, but you know, that's the first thing. But, I was telling the girl I was doing my hair and a guy doing my makeup early. I was like, this is so hard. I'm in the mall with a full face of full beat, fake hair and everything. And people looking like, it's a tall woman. I was walking through the mall and so many black women. Was coming up to me and giving me compliments. And I just thought that was so amazing. didn't know, they didn't care if I was trans. They don't know, all they was like, you are so beautiful.

The Jennifer Experience: And you are And you are. 

Elle De Vaughn: I love when people give me compliments. I love that, but I love when black women can look at and see the beauty, the beauty within and on the outside and be okay with themselves enough to say you are a beautiful person. I don't know if you're a man or a woman or what, but you're beautiful. And that makes me feel so good. 

I'm just excited about this journey and I'm going to live my life and live my truth and enjoy the ride.

The Jennifer Experience: Listen, tell the people how to find you.

Elle De Vaughn: Yes. Okay. So my Instagram is Elle De Vaughn, that's E L L E De Vaughn, D E V A U G H N. Did you ask me to spell it? No, but just in case you can't spell it. 

The Jennifer Experience: Yeah, they need to be able to spell, honey. Tell them. 

Elle De Vaughn: So I'm on all platforms. You can find me at Elle De Vaughn, follow me, you know, I got some great things coming up that I'm doing. I know guys can open up more doors, even with this conversation with you now. So, there's a lot of great things I want to do. I don't necessarily want to be an advocate. I don't want to be this person going on marches and things like that, but I will stand with the trans community and stand with the LGBT community on anything when it comes down to being fair, being accepted, and them loving themselves, you know, and being treated fairly. One of the things that I'm so grateful for is that my family, my mom, my brother, they support me 100%, they love on me. My mom is constantly telling, giving me makeup tips and hair 

The Jennifer Experience: Shout out to the family back home. Shout out to y'all for loving Elle in spite of.

Elle De Vaughn: I FaceTime my mom already. So she seen my, you know, my face and my hair and everything. She was so sad. I look just like her too, by the way, which is so interesting now that I'm, you know, living life as a woman. I really look more and more like my mom. But yeah, so Elle De Vaughn, how you can find me? I got a lot going on. I'm always posting fitness videos. So if you need to make some enthusiasm around that, 

The Jennifer Experience: If you want to see what a perfect gluteus maximus looks like,

Elle De Vaughn: The Gloop Queen. 

The Jennifer Experience: Now, listen, ladies, don't be upset. I said, if you want to see what a perfect one looks like,

Elle De Vaughn: Oh my goodness.

The Jennifer Experience: Go to the page and listen, if y'all think I'm lying, go to the page and then inbox me and tell me, was I lying? Yay. Y'all, y'all know I keeps receipts, so y'all go look and then y'all tell me what y'all think. And y'all gonna be like, you was right. If you want to see a perfect, 

Elle De Vaughn: Girl, we've only just begun. You understand me? 

The Jennifer Experience: Ooh, baby. She say, we've only just begun. 

Elle De Vaughn: We've only just begun. 

Yeah, I think there are things I want to do as far as my transitional process. I'm not trying to do anything drastic, but there are things I want to do. Let me just put it like that. 

The Jennifer Experience: Okay, so you're not gonna have the surgery.

Elle De Vaughn: So that's when you say the surgery.

The Jennifer Experience: Okay, well, see, and see, this is education. So most of us think when you're, when you are trans, 

Elle De Vaughn: This is good. This is good. I know where you're going. 

The Jennifer Experience: Yeah, to complete the trans process, if you are trans and you are becoming trans and you're a man first, and to complete the trans process to become a woman and you cut your penis off. If you are a woman, and see, I don't know if that's possible, if you're a woman and you become trans, do they attach penises? 

Elle De Vaughn: They can make a penis for you. Yeah, yeah, you didn't know that girl? But for me, you know, I'm, like, everybody's journey is different. And so, and, but as far as education, you're right. People think that just because you're trans, you're going to immediately get your penis cut off. Or, you know, if you're a trans woman. There are a lot of trans women who do not have that type, have not had sexual reassignment, SRS, sexual reassignment surgery. They have not done that or choose not to do that.

The Jennifer Experience: And that that's the proper terminology for it. 

Elle De Vaughn: Yeah, that does not make them a woman because they get their penis cut. Does not make them a woman. It's how they feel on the inside, what works for them. So each individual has their own journey. For me, I have not decided that that's what I want to do. And you use the word complete. It's not about being complete because you had that surgery. Cause there are a lot of women who live out there who do have a penis. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're not completely trans.

The Jennifer Experience: Okay.

Elle De Vaughn: Okay. 

The Jennifer Experience: Yes, ma'am. Correct me. Get me together. 

Elle De Vaughn: Yeah, it is inappropriate to talk about genitals and dealing with trans people because it is a sensitive subject, because there are some people who opt not to have that, go that far. They may get top surgery, or they may get facial feminization surgery, and all that kind of stuff. You can do all that. But that is an option if you want to do that. And so, you know, and for, you know, that's not something that I'm thinking about right now at all.

The Jennifer Experience: Yeah, so when you say surgery, people have to know like there's several surgeries you can have. Surgery not just on your genitals. But you could have certain now I see and I was under the understanding, that you could just take hormones and hormones would give you breasts, but people actually get breast. 

Elle De Vaughn: I am on hormones now, 

The Jennifer Experience: But some people get breast put on, to. 

Elle De Vaughn: Yeah, yeah, I'm going to do that too eventually, but I'm trying to be on my hormones for a while to see how much tissue. It has developed a lot, a good deal of tissue for me already. So I'm probably good A, A size, B size right now. you know, small b, but everybody's different. Everybody, everybody's different when it comes down to the hormones and what it does to your body. For me, the estrogen, because when we do a hormone, so it's pumping estrogen into my body and it's making me more feminine presenting feminine looking my hormones, my emotions, it does give you some breast tissue. So if you do go get implants, you have that tissue that they can work with to really give you that, that look. Yeah. that you're going for. So that's where I am now. So I'm not rushing to do that surgery. I'm waiting to see just how much breast tissue is developed based on the hormones. And so far everything's been mapping, been going well.

The Jennifer Experience: Wow. We'll see. And again, education, everybody has to understand that in all walks of this, It's a process. 

Elle De Vaughn: It's a process. And, I like sharing with people and telling people like, like you said, like you didn't know about this, some of this stuff. So our terminology would not. So I encourage people to ask questions.

The Jennifer Experience: I would rather ask than assume any day of the week. Cause I, I've had people ask me questions about lesbianism and I'm like, huh? But I, I would I, I would rather you, you asked me then to assume wrong because the, the assumptions that we sometimes hear, and you know, this being in the community, the assumptions that we sometimes hear is nowhere near close to what it is. And a lot of times it's nowhere near as bad as what you think, you just need to ask.

Elle De Vaughn: Just ask the question. Yeah. 

The Jennifer Experience: be scared to ask. And it's like, if you just ask the question, you'll find that you probably can digest the answer much better than whatever you thought it was.

Elle De Vaughn: Exactly. Exactly. That is so true. That is so true. And, I just encourage people to ask questions and educate themselves because that's how that makes us better overall. And it helps some of the, prejudgment and the, like you said, the assumptions. If you just ask questions and talk about it and deal with it, but you'll be surprised how many people, if you're not a part of the LGBT or the alphabet soup, They just don't know, you know, and, for me, all I ask is that I actually got to be respected as a person, as an individual. I ask that even though you may not know anything about, you know, this lifestyle, if you will, or this,about trans lives is that you just respect me. And if you've always loved me as Joshua, I just want you to love me as Elle now, if you can't deal with that, then it's okay. I'll see you when I see you. I just, I'm just about cool vibes and peace in my life right now. And if you don't love me or can't understand or whatnot, or can't get with me, then it's okay. May the Lord watch between me and thee.

The Jennifer Experience: While we're absent.

Elle De Vaughn: While we're absent one from the other.

The Jennifer Experience: One from- May his peace be with you 

Elle De Vaughn: till we meet again. You know, that's why I'm like on some real stuff. I just let God put people in my life now that are for me. And if they're not for me, show me so I can be like, so I can give them a benediction and move on by my life. 

The Jennifer Experience: Because the truth is we ain't got to meet again.

Elle De Vaughn: We don't have to. It's all good. And there's some people who were in your life for a chapter. That chapter is closed. I gotta go to the next chapter, and I can't drag you along with this. It's all good. No love lost. I have a lot of friends, you know, who were really friends. Well, no, I'm not gonna quote. They were friends, but sometimes that chapter was closed. And, and I've always been type of person to be like, well, let's just give them another chance. Let's just keep going. They give me another chance. I'm not saying it's always their fault, but I'm just saying there's some things that you'd be fighting for. You're not supposed to. And God's like, I've, I've put a period to that. Why do you keep putting a comma?

The Jennifer Experience: Yes.

Elle De Vaughn: You know? So

The Jennifer Experience: I and I totally agree with you. I mean, there are some people now they cringe when they hear me say my wife and and my thought is so then why do you still associate with me?

Elle De Vaughn: I'm about to say something. Why do you? Why do you F with me basically? So I'm about to say, but you know. 

The Jennifer Experience: Well, I'll be trying not to say things like that in public. June is pride month. You absolutely know that I'm going to post things about pride.

Elle De Vaughn: That's right. 

The Jennifer Experience: And this is the worst month to be posting a gay joke. 'cause I will delete you.

Elle De Vaughn: Exactly. Don't come for me. You know, that's a man. That's this, that.

The Jennifer Experience: No, no, no, It's like, it's like if you already, if one thing I don't try to do is force my gayness on other people, but I do demand that you respect me and you respect who I love or else we won't come around. 

Elle De Vaughn: Respect who you love to. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And that's family, friends. 

The Jennifer Experience: I have a cousin, one time someone went when something happened with somebody else in the family, and the cousin I remember she hollered out and it tickled me I mean I screamed it tickled me she said I got to see them again. Like, I don't, I don't have

Elle De Vaughn: Some real talk. Yeah, 

The Jennifer Experience: My gay tail around you, if me talking about me having a wife irritates you.

Elle De Vaughn: Exactly. Exactly.

The Jennifer Experience: I don't

Elle De Vaughn: I don't have to be around it. And that protects you. That protects your peace. And that's why I'm like, God, just let me be around people who are 

The Jennifer Experience: I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna let you disturb my peace.

Elle De Vaughn: exactly who gonna bring me peace. I'm gonna bring them peace. And I'm got good vibes, good energy. The love is there. The respect is there. I don't want you calling me he, I'm letting you know my name is Elle. My pronouns are she and her.

The Jennifer Experience: Your pronouns are not they though.

Elle De Vaughn: No, not they just she and her. 

The Jennifer Experience: She and her. Okay.

Elle De Vaughn: I'm sitting up here like this, full glam hair, pretty cute and everything. Don't be like, Josh, you great. You know, don't be calling, referring to me as the man, all that kind of stuff. And I haven't had that happen to me. I know it probably will. It's okay. But, I'm just letting like my family and close friends need to understand and learn. But I give them grace because some people have known me for so many years as a male. And as Josh, of course it takes time. Like even with you, you said, you know, excuse me if I refer to you wrong. If I, you know, go back, I'll use the wrong Pronouns. But long as you're not disrespectful, you know, we can rock.

The Jennifer Experience: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I agree. I think again, I I'm super duper proud of you. You definitely look gorgeous. 

Elle De Vaughn: Thank you, baby. I appreciate it. 

The Jennifer Experience: No doubt about that. 

Elle De Vaughn: And I want to tell you I admire your maturity and your growth and what you're doing. I am also proud of you too. You are doing your thing. I'm just following you like we follow each other on social media. And I just look and say, look at Jennifer. She do look at her go on, girl. Go on, girl. And that's all I, you know what I'm saying? I just be happy for people. You know what I'm saying? And so I'm just so excited that, you know, you reached out and we talked and we were able to do this, but I'm just, I'm excited about you and great things to come from you. And you are putting a mark. And an imprint in this community and your voice is needed. Your education and your process and your experience is needed. So keep doing what you're doing. You are making a difference in our lives and we appreciate what you're doing and all the work you're doing. 

The Jennifer Experience: I thank you for that. Now I'm going to end this for you before you to get me to cry. Listen, y'all. Thank y'all so much for listening in. I thank y'all for letting Elle present herself. This has been such, such a great, great occasion. Please go follow her. Like I said, if y'all want to see a picture of a perfect gluteus maximus. Go I tell no lies. I tell no lies, but I want y'all to go follow her anyway, because she is fabulous, fabulous. And then, now the boys y'all go fill up that inbox. Don't fill up mine. Okay. right The right. Well, she, she did say her type. So the right ones, but again, don't, fill up mine. I cannot forward her any messages. Okay. And I will not. Okay. And so, so there we have it. And so, but this has been a great show. and, and, And you know, what, we're going to get together again.

Elle De Vaughn: Yes, we do. Please do. Please make sure I'm down for that. I also want to say, you know, today's the anniversary of, the post nightclub shooting was today and we're doing this. So we definitely pay tribute to them, to those 49 lives that were lost and people who are living their authentic self and their truth and enjoying themselves, lost their lives that day. And so now here we are years later, able to live our lives and so, and live out loud and be proud, but we do pay tribute and respect and memory to those lives that were lost on this day in 2014.

The Jennifer Experience: Absolutely. And we keep their family And their friends in our prayers because we know that, you know, those people are gone and their family and friends are still dealing with the loss. We want to definitely thank you for reminding me of that. Elle, I appreciate that. So 

Elle De Vaughn: Absolutely. 

The Jennifer Experience: Thank you all for listening. This has been just a great, great episode. I enjoyed it so much. Thank you Elle again for letting us in your life and, and telling us about your journey. I don't know how you cannot be inspired from this episode. It was just beautiful. so until we meet again. You know, all what I say, take good care, keep listening, and we will talk to you soon. Bye bye. 

Hello listeners, Jennifer here, host of Different Perspectivez. As we celebrate Pride Month, I want to take a moment to share something very special with all of you. Have you ever found yourself navigating the complex journey of parenthood after your child has said to you they're gay? It can be a challenging road to walk, but let me assure you, you're not alone. That's why I wrote the booklet Shades of Acceptance: Navigating Parenthood After Coming Out. In this heartfelt booklet, I share my own experiences along with practical advice. And compassionate guidance to help parents like you understand, accept, and support your LGBTQ plus children with love and authenticity, no matter how old they are, whether you're struggling with questions of faith, acceptance, or simply how to best support your child. Shades of Acceptance offers insight and wisdom to guide you on this journey. I encourage you to get your copy today. Head over to Amazon or my website, www.thejenniferexperience.Com to grab your copy today. As a matter of fact, I have a special treat for you. If you use the code PRIDE, P R I D E, you'll get 10 off either the e booklet or a physical copy. Let's make this Pride Month a celebration of love, understanding, and acceptance for all. Thank you for listening and remember, love is always the answer and love still conquers all. I love all of you. Take good care.​

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